Post by Jurgen "b1rd0fpr3y" D. L. on Aug 7, 2007 13:57:26 GMT 1
in een discussie over bovenstaande kwam ik op de nieuwe boards van wizz dit tegen:
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AD&D (1st or 2nd Ed.) EASIER/SIMPLER?
I gamed in the 80's, when BOTH editions first came out, and all I can say to that load of **** is:
Look, I GREW UP playing 1st & 2nd Ed., and I'm smart enough to realize that AD&D wasn't just broken, it was FUBAR!
1st off, 2nd ed had two HUGE problems in MECHANICS ALONE: reverse numbered AC's (and the resulting 1st ed charts one had to have on hand at ALL times, or 2nd ed.'s simpler but still illogical-by-way-of-reverse-AC "THAC0" crap) and WAY too many Saving Throw categories (Paralysis, Poison, Or Death Magic [?]; Wand, Staff, Or Wand [which is different from cast on the fly spells HOW???]; Petrification Or Polymorph [see previous query]; Breath Weapon [what was THAT, "Save vs Tic-Tacs???]; and finally 'Spells' [as opposed to wands, 'death magic' or polymorphing. HUH???]; instead of a simple Fortitude [I'm so bad-***, I just TOUGH IT OUT!], Reflex , and Will [self-explanatory].)
Then there's the classes. Let's look at a few examples through the editions:
Barbarian-
(1st Ed.) Me be cool! Me be Trogdor (or Thog, or Krunk, or insert-barbarian-stereotype-name-here)! Me have more hit-points than puny fighter! BUT ME HATE MAGIC! ME NO STAND MAGIC! ME KILL PARTY MAGIC-USER, KILL CLERIC, DESTROY ALL MAGIC TREASURE!
(2nd Ed.) I'm just a fighter... with a kit. Oh, wait, NOW I'm somewhat useful and more like my old 1st ed. self (without that pesky magic-hatred), but now I'm relegated to STONE-AGE weapons and armor technology.
(3rd Ed/ 3.5) Okay, I'm able to be more like Conan (or Fahferd) as the original authors wrote them, but I've got enough options now I don't have to be a stereotype instead of an archetype! yay!
Cleric-
(1st Ed) MEDIC! Oh, wait, I AM the medic...
(2ND Ed.) MEDIC! Oh, wait, I AM the medic...
(3rd/3.5) MEDIC! Oh, wait, I AM the medic...
Druid-
(1st) Trees are pretty...
(2nd) Save the trees! (*growl*)
(3rd/3.5) Look, this's the last time I'm telling you, get away from the frikkin' tree with that axe, or I'll Meteor Swarm AND Flame Strike you, then shape-shift into a bloody kodiak bear, forget that I'm a vegetarian, and we'll see just how fighter tastes with hot sauce!
Fighter-
(1st) Oil-can! Oil can! Ooh, DOUBLE weapon specialization, pretty! Thank you, Unearthed Arcana!
(2nd) Oil-can! Oil can! What, no double-specialization? Well, at least I'm the only one who can specialize at all, now!
(3rd/3.5) Oil can? We don't need no steenking oil can! Now excuse me while I whip out a can of "weapon specialization combined with Great Cleave" on these monsters
Magic-user/Mage/Wizard (and/or Sorcerer)
(1st) At lower levels an angry house-fly could kill me, and I don't even have the strength score to carry this gods-awful heavy spellbook around, but at higher levels THE GODS ARE MY BREAKFAST CEREAL!!!!
(2nd) What, I can't kill gods on a whim anymore, but I still have the hit-points of Pee-Wee Herman?
(3rd/3.5 Wizard) *sigh* still shackled with this book... BUT AT HIGH LEVEL, EVEN DRAGONS WET THEMSELVES IN MY PRESENCE! BWA-HA-HA-HA!
(3rd/3.5 Sorcerer) Spell book? SPELLBOOK? Who the heck needs a spellbook?
Bard-
(1st Ed) The game's very first PRESTIGE CLASS! (prerequisites: levels in Fighter, Thief, and Druid)
(2nd Ed.) So I'm basically a Thief with a kit, eh? WTF??? This SUCKS!
(3rd Ed.) Okay, so I'm a bit more balanced, but I still suck.
(3.5) *whew* I'm FINALLY balanced with the other classes... so how come I still suck?
Monk-
(1st) At low levels, I've got the same abilities as a thief, and Magic-User's hit points (WHOA, A FLY! RUN!!!), but at high levels I CAN KILL ODIN WITH MY BARE HANDS!!!
(2ND) Wait, whadda ya mean I don't exist? Oh, I DO exist NOW, but I'm just a Cleric WITH A FRIKKIN KIT??
(3rd/3.5) "Everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting..."
Psionics-
(1st Edition) No classes, and seriously underpowered
(2nd Ed.) Well, now we 'Psionicists' finally have our own class, but we're a bit overpowered now...
(3rd) Psionicists have now been split between the Psion class and the Psychic Warrior class... okay, I can live with that... but how in the heck did we get simultaneously under- AND over-powered?
(3.5) Okay, Now we've added the Soulknife and Wilder classes, okay, and HEY, psionics are finally BALANCED!!!! ...what the? Complete Psionic? AW CRAP!
Okay, so 3.5 isn't perfect (COMPLETE PSIONIC??? ), but it's a definite improvement, mechanics and character class-wise over previous editions. Plus, with the D20 system, character advancement (mechanics-wise) means more than just more hit-points, and more skills, your characters statistics can actually improve without the artificial aid of magic items, wishes, and other such nonsense...
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AD&D (1st or 2nd Ed.) EASIER/SIMPLER?
I gamed in the 80's, when BOTH editions first came out, and all I can say to that load of **** is:
Look, I GREW UP playing 1st & 2nd Ed., and I'm smart enough to realize that AD&D wasn't just broken, it was FUBAR!
1st off, 2nd ed had two HUGE problems in MECHANICS ALONE: reverse numbered AC's (and the resulting 1st ed charts one had to have on hand at ALL times, or 2nd ed.'s simpler but still illogical-by-way-of-reverse-AC "THAC0" crap) and WAY too many Saving Throw categories (Paralysis, Poison, Or Death Magic [
?]; Wand, Staff, Or Wand [which is different from cast on the fly spells HOW???]; Petrification Or Polymorph [see previous query]; Breath Weapon [what was THAT, "Save vs Tic-Tacs???]; and finally 'Spells' [as opposed to wands, 'death magic' or polymorphing. HUH???]; instead of a simple Fortitude [I'm so bad-***, I just TOUGH IT OUT!], Reflex , and Will [self-explanatory].)Then there's the classes. Let's look at a few examples through the editions:
Barbarian-
(1st Ed.) Me be cool! Me be Trogdor (or Thog, or Krunk, or insert-barbarian-stereotype-name-here)! Me have more hit-points than puny fighter! BUT ME HATE MAGIC! ME NO STAND MAGIC! ME KILL PARTY MAGIC-USER, KILL CLERIC, DESTROY ALL MAGIC TREASURE!
(2nd Ed.) I'm just a fighter... with a kit. Oh, wait, NOW I'm somewhat useful and more like my old 1st ed. self (without that pesky magic-hatred), but now I'm relegated to STONE-AGE weapons and armor technology.
(3rd Ed/ 3.5) Okay, I'm able to be more like Conan (or Fahferd) as the original authors wrote them, but I've got enough options now I don't have to be a stereotype instead of an archetype! yay!
Cleric-
(1st Ed) MEDIC! Oh, wait, I AM the medic...
(2ND Ed.) MEDIC! Oh, wait, I AM the medic...
(3rd/3.5) MEDIC! Oh, wait, I AM the medic...
Druid-
(1st) Trees are pretty...
(2nd) Save the trees! (*growl*)
(3rd/3.5) Look, this's the last time I'm telling you, get away from the frikkin' tree with that axe, or I'll Meteor Swarm AND Flame Strike you, then shape-shift into a bloody kodiak bear, forget that I'm a vegetarian, and we'll see just how fighter tastes with hot sauce!
Fighter-
(1st) Oil-can! Oil can! Ooh, DOUBLE weapon specialization, pretty! Thank you, Unearthed Arcana!
(2nd) Oil-can! Oil can! What, no double-specialization? Well, at least I'm the only one who can specialize at all, now!
(3rd/3.5) Oil can? We don't need no steenking oil can! Now excuse me while I whip out a can of "weapon specialization combined with Great Cleave" on these monsters
Magic-user/Mage/Wizard (and/or Sorcerer)
(1st) At lower levels an angry house-fly could kill me, and I don't even have the strength score to carry this gods-awful heavy spellbook around, but at higher levels THE GODS ARE MY BREAKFAST CEREAL!!!!
(2nd) What, I can't kill gods on a whim anymore, but I still have the hit-points of Pee-Wee Herman?
(3rd/3.5 Wizard) *sigh* still shackled with this book... BUT AT HIGH LEVEL, EVEN DRAGONS WET THEMSELVES IN MY PRESENCE! BWA-HA-HA-HA!
(3rd/3.5 Sorcerer) Spell book? SPELLBOOK?
Who the heck needs a spellbook?Bard-
(1st Ed) The game's very first PRESTIGE CLASS! (prerequisites: levels in Fighter, Thief, and Druid)
(2nd Ed.) So I'm basically a Thief with a kit, eh? WTF??? This SUCKS!
(3rd Ed.) Okay, so I'm a bit more balanced, but I still suck.
(3.5) *whew* I'm FINALLY balanced with the other classes... so how come I still suck?
Monk-
(1st) At low levels, I've got the same abilities as a thief, and Magic-User's hit points (WHOA, A FLY! RUN!!!), but at high levels I CAN KILL ODIN WITH MY BARE HANDS!!!
(2ND) Wait, whadda ya mean I don't exist? Oh, I DO exist NOW, but I'm just a Cleric WITH A FRIKKIN KIT?
?(3rd/3.5) "Everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting..."
Psionics-
(1st Edition) No classes, and seriously underpowered
(2nd Ed.) Well, now we 'Psionicists' finally have our own class, but we're a bit overpowered now...
(3rd)
Psionicists have now been split between the Psion class and the Psychic Warrior class... okay, I can live with that... but how in the heck did we get simultaneously under- AND over-powered?(3.5) Okay, Now we've added the Soulknife and Wilder classes, okay, and HEY, psionics are finally BALANCED!!!! ...what the? Complete Psionic?
AW CRAP!Okay, so 3.5 isn't perfect (COMPLETE PSIONIC??? ), but it's a definite improvement, mechanics and character class-wise over previous editions. Plus, with the D20 system, character advancement (mechanics-wise) means more than just more hit-points, and more skills, your characters statistics can actually improve without the artificial aid of magic items, wishes, and other such nonsense...
